[Heidi Shenk]

Hey everyone,

I have to agree here with these people that we should take our arguments to 
Powderpolitics.  I have already seen and heard enough about the war in my 
classes, on tv, over dinner, while hanging out w/my friends, etc.  I am a 
huge Midnight Oil fan and while part of that is because of what they stand 
for, I would REALLY like to be able to talk about the band and not this 
war!!  I have already heard too much about it, and it's not that I'm not 
trying to be in denial about it.  It just seems that there could be at least 
one place that I don't have to hear about it and that I can talk about 
something I ENJOY instead!!  I already tried to post a topic about the Oils 
NOT having to do with this war so that we could get off the topic for a bit, 
but too many of you were too busy arguing with each other to even notice!  
In case you guys haven't figured it out yet, when there are people with 
different political views arguing against each other, THEY GET NOWHERE!!  If 
all of you guys are anything like me, then you are the most stubborn people 
in the entire world and so I know you guys will not change your views.  If 
anything can we please at least respect each others opinions and try and 
learn something from each other rather than squabbling over why or why not 
this war should be happening as well as all the other topics that have come 
up dealing with this war.  I am starting to find that the arguing on this 
list is completely immature in the nature that you guys can't stand back and 
understand that people have a right to their own opinion whether you agree 
or not.  Frankly, I find this sad that you can't step back and understand 
this when most of you are a lot older than I and should be able to do this!  
  In reality this war is happening, and frankly we can't do much about it at 
this point.  Not to be negative about this, but it's time to face reality.  
Nothing you say here on the list is going to change this, so can we please 
get back to the Oils!?

Heidi


'Put down that weapon or we'll all be gone,
I must know something to know it's so wrong'
                    -Midnight Oil





----Original Message Follows----
From: <bmounier@sympatico.ca>
To: <powderworks@cs.colorado.edu>
Subject: [Powderworks] VLMOC: anti-Americanism, so-called
Date: Wed, 16 Apr 2003 7:46:33 -0400

I second this motion. Hey, cool address by the way...
Brigitte
 >
 > De: Jonathan & Julie Hart <midnightoil@videotron.ca>
 > Date: 2003/04/15 mar. PM 11:39:03 GMT-04:00
 > À: powderworks <powderworks@cs.colorado.edu>
 > Subject: FW: [Powderworks] VLMOC: anti-Americanism, so-called
 >
 > PLEASE TAKE THIS DISCUSSION TO POWDERPOLITICS!!!!!!
 >
 > EVERYONE!
 > THAT MEANS YOU!  AND YOU!  YEAH, YOU WITH THE T-SHIRT!
 >
 > -----Original Message-----
 > From: powderworks-admin@cs.colorado.edu
 > [mailto:powderworks-admin@cs.colorado.edu] On Behalf Of Kate Parker
 > Adams
 > Sent: April 15, 2003 8:49 PM
 > To: Bruce Robertson
 > Cc: Tom Davies; powderworks@cs.colorado.edu
 > Subject: Re: [Powderworks] VLMOC: anti-Americanism, so-called
 >
 >
 > At 06:50 PM 4/15/03 -0400, Bruce Robertson wrote:
 > >On the Oils being anti-American, aren't we more interested in
 > >understanding what the Oils are FOR? I'm no rocket surgeon, but
 > figuring
 > >out what's wrong with the world comes pretty easy to me, and I assume
 > most
 > >of us. 'Where do we go from here'  would be a more pressing - and
 > >promising - question IMO.
 >
 > I think this also ties into the whole boycott thread ... misguided and
 > not
 > terribly constructive in a global sense.
 >
 > If you listen to Pete's rantings and read his website, there is much
 > that
 > he has to say about sustainability, about the web of life, about
 > precaution.  Much of that starts with making the choice to buy local
 > products and from local merchants whenever you possibly can.
 >
 > I bought several items today that were made in America, and the
 > important
 > thing about all of them was that they were purchased from local
 > merchants.  Instead of going to the McDonald's in the food court in the
 > hospital area, I bought from the food co-op and the local ice-cream
 > truck.  Got my organic fair trade coffee from a local coffee house (with
 > a
 > free coupon from the fiery and hip little local free paper no less!)
 > instead of being patronized by a latte ventil barristro pretentiomonium
 > at
 > Starbuquitous a block away . I bought bike inner tubes from a local bike
 >
 > shop, not from a corporate bigbox - they won't give me a massbike member
 >
 > discount anyway.  I paid the mortgage at the local bank that holds our
 > loan
 > in portfolio five years after we moved in (rare - usually, mortgages are
 >
 > sold fast), and made a deposit at my credit union.  I did all of this
 > while
 > commuting to and from work on a bike.
 >
 > Given corporate hegemony in certain areas, it simply isn't possible to
 > totally avoid the merchandising machine.  But you don't have to make a
 > perfection campaign out of it, you just have to realise that sometimes
 > you
 > have choices, and that buying locally benefits your community and buying
 >
 > local goods is usually a vastly more sustainable choice due to the
 > environmental costs of transit alone.
 >
 > Ken Geiser, a mentor of mine at the Lowell Center for Sustainable
 > Production, has been on a positivist kick as of late, urging all and
 > sundry
 > to think of how the future should look and work toward policies and
 > practices that make it so rather than simply fight a multi-front, never
 > ending battle against _____.    As hard as that is in the current
 > climate,
 > I think I am attracted to Ken's teachings for the same reasons that I am
 >
 > attracted to the Oil's messages.  It is not about fighting bad guys -
 > its
 > about building a better world for all and making it last.
 >
 > Just my $0.02,
 > Kate
 >
 > _______________________________________________
 > Powderworks mailing list
 > Powderworks@cs.colorado.edu
 > http://www.cs.colorado.edu/mailman/listinfo/powderworks
 >
 > _______________________________________________
 > Powderworks mailing list
 > Powderworks@cs.colorado.edu
 > http://www.cs.colorado.edu/mailman/listinfo/powderworks
 >


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