[Maurice R. Kelly]

On Feb 13, Henry Lutte wrote:

> > What does obtaining a promo item have to do with making a valid point
> > about putting full commercial albums on an Internet server.
> 
> In my opinion it's closely related in the realm of improper use of material.
> Like I said, the promo's are  always available after release date.

Okay - "Could the copyright holders of the various files on the FTP site
please step forward" - see most stuff on the FTP site is there illegally -
whether it was recorded illegally by bootleggers or whatever. We are
living in the real world here - I made a point about the *commercially
available CDs* of the Ghostwriters which are being made available in their
entirety. This has the potential to deprive the band of their funds.

I concede that in buying a promo, someone profits from the sale of the
promo. However, it's not a loss to overall sales. I'm still buying the
full release. Hell, I'm buying two copies. And a third when it comes out
in Europe.

I'm not approaching this from a legal standpoint - I take it according to
my morals. I've uploaded a full album to an FTP server before - it was the
Green Disc. A complete rarity. It was still illegal to do so. But morally,
I was happy.

> > Firstly, I don't think I bragged about it - like most people on this list,
> > I wanted to let them know I had it and was enjoying it. I wasn't the first
> > person to post to the list to say they had obtained it (at least not in my
> > recollection anyway - I'm not going to chomp through the archive to find
> > out who the individual I'm thinking of was.)
> 
> Sorry Maurice, I think that "brag" was too strong a word for me to use. I
> would have been excited too.

I took too much offence at it. Sorry.

> > I bought the promo for a number of reasons - as someone who maintains a
> > web-site I was anticipating a flurry of activity once the album came out -
> > obtaining it early helps me maintain sanity. I also live in the UK - I
> 
> UK folks can order the CD from elsewhere and receive it on time.

Where. I've ordered from Amazon.com - their estimated delivery date is in
March.

> > will be waiting for my official albums to arrive after folks in the
> > States/Australia get theirs. I'm also a collector -
> 
> Promo's are available after release date, and cheaper.

That depends on the promo. The Green Disc was a promo. So was the Best of
the B-Sides disc. They cost me a lot more than they did just after they
went out. I paid over the odds for mine because I wanted it there and
then. I opted for a promo because I wanted to get the promo at some stage.
If I didn't buy it, someone else would have. As I feel like saying to the
Liquid 8 people who prevented further promos being sold on Ebay (which was
not where I acquired mine) - complaining about the sales of the promosnow
is shutting the door after the horse has bolted. The promos have already
missed their target. Once they get into the hands of private "salesmen"
then they are gone.

It's like what I've always said about bootlegging. It doesn't matter how
much people rant and rave about boots - they will always be there, while
people will buy them.

My final point (and yes, this IS my final point :-) - I bought a promo
disc. I'm one of the biggest "promoters" of the band on the web. One of my
reasons for purchasing the promo is so that I can keep up to date, and
offer more on my web pages. The promo is actually useful in my hands. My
only gripe (and it isn't really - more of a niggle) is that I paid for the
priviledge of promoting the band. Oh, and UK workers - I slipped a
screenshot of my homepage into a recent article I wrote for a computer
magazine. Hopefully it'll get though to the magazine, and if so, should
come out at roughly the time the album may come out in the UK. If one
person buys a copy of the album based on that blatant plug, I'd be very
pleased!

> Maurice, I apologize for sounding malicious and I agree with you that it
> came across that way.  It wasn't my intention but I did see a contradiction
> in terms.  I suppose I'm too passionate about the band and stuff.  If you're
> ever in my neck of the woods please look me up and you'll find me to be
> quite pleasant.  Once again, my apologies.

And I'm not usually that defensive. My apologies also.

Cheers,

-- 
Maurice R. Kelly
mkelly@deadheart.org.uk