Midnight Oil

[Powderworks] Nazis and Taliban

Kate Adams kate@dnki.net
Fri, 09 Aug 2002 21:49:12 -0400

Just couldn't stay out of this ...

I read an excellent article in The Nation last October.  It was called 
"Blowback" and was written by Chalmers Johnson.  In this article, Johnson 
describes the ways in which US Foreign Policy, particularly clandestine CIA 
behavior set the stage for the situations the US now finds itself embroiled in.

Here are some good links to both a compilation containing "blowback" and 
similar articles from The Nation: 

You can find the article, along with some other good stuff in the archives 
of The Nation, but here's a link to a copy or similar condensation of the 
book: http://www.thirdworldtraveler.com/Sept_11_2001/Blowback_CJ_article.html

At 11:48 PM 8/9/02 +0100, Julian Shaw wrote:
>Yes you have a point. All countries do to a large degree act only in their
>own best interest. But there are some things which just are not right. I
>certainly would be the last person to defend the barbaric acts of the
>British Empire, that is something we all want to move away from. But I think
>that in Europe now there is definitely a move towards thinking more
>progressively, a development of a social conscience.
>I presume with your question you mean as a response to 9/11. I think some
>people might have got the impression that I was against intervention in
>Afghanistan. Far from it. The Taliban needed removing. I was all for the US
>and the UK doing something about it and I'm sure much misery has been spared
>for the people of Afghanistan (although it is always sad when innocent
>people die - estimates of 5,000 civilians died in Afghanistan during the
>bombing!). My point would be why did it take 3000 Americans to die before
>the US saw how evil the Taliban was? How many thousands were the Taliban
>killing every year? Did the American President lose sleep over that? Indeed
>as we have seen so many times the US were happy to help religious fanatics
>as long as the weren't pointing their guns at other Americans. Sad but true.
>And now there is a war on terror. Well of course a war on terror is a good
>idea. But is the US making things better or worse? The war on terror in many
>countries has turned into a war on freedom. The amount of times I have heard
>in the last 9 months that Governments all around the world are changing laws
>to suppress "terrorists" who are probably mostly legitimate political
>groups. Anyone who disagrees with the Government can be classed as a
>terrorist. Does the US (or any western government) care about this? And will
>it make friends with Saudi Arabia, a country with one of the most
>oppressive, hard line regimes imaginable, just so that it is better placed
>to attack Iraq.
>Something to chew on...
>Julian Lewis Shaw
>Man, Myth or Monkey? Find out:
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "Cheryl H" <ooiiilllss@hotmail.com>
>To: <julian@jlshaw.co.uk>; <powderworks@cs.colorado.edu>
>Sent: Friday, August 09, 2002 10:46 PM
>Subject: Re: [Powderworks] Nazis and Taliban
> >
> >
> > What countries don't act in their own best interests??  ie, Apartheid -
> > that done on behalf of the people of South Africa?  Were the Conquistadors
> > acting in the best interests of Native Americans (North AND South) by
> > raping, pillaging and stripping the land of its precious metals silver and
> > gold?  The Europeans came to this country to benefit whom?  Are we
> > to follow the examples lead by the British Empire?
> >
> > We are ALL accountable for our actions.  Instead of criticizing us for
> > we've done wrong, I'd like to second Scott Williams and ask how you would
> > handle it.
> >
> > Cheryl
> >
> > From: "Julian Shaw" <julian@monkeyfamily.freeserve.co.uk>
> > Reply-To: "Julian Shaw" <julian@jlshaw.co.uk>
> > To: "'powderworks'" <powderworks@cs.colorado.edu>
> > Subject: Re: [Powderworks] Nazis and Taliban
> > Date: Fri, 9 Aug 2002 19:44:40 +0100
> >
> > I think the term Nazi is a particularly offensive one to use and I
> > wouldn't use it as the US has often stood up for minority groups and the
> > oppressed. But the truth is that the US as a world player always acts in
> > it's best interest and very rarely in the interest of others. Does the US
> > give a toss about climate change? No of course not as long as the money
> > keeps pouring in so America can get richer and the economy can keep on
> > growing! Another example - International Criminal Court. Why wouldn't the
> > sign up? Because it's not in it's best interest. Well of course not -
> > many other countries could see that people need to be accountable! But the
> > US seems to have got away with it anyway and got in with the proviso that
> > it's troops on peace keeping missions can't ever be charged with anything.
> > Errr very magnanimous of the US indeed! Just a couple of big
>examples -there
> > are many others.
> >
> > I think it's sad that the US gets singled out so much - there are many
> > hundreds of worse governments in the world. The problem is they are
> > run by dictators. As the leader of the free world the US should be setting
> > an example and I think that is why the US gets bashed so much - because
> > people think of  the US government as hypocrites when it talks of
> > and is at the same time pushing it's weight around so it can get things
> > own way.
> >
> > Julian Lewis Shaw
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > _________________________________________________________________
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> >
> >
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Kate Parker Adams
"She's gonna dream up the world she wants to live in,
She's gonna dream out loud" - U2 (Zooropa)
go Out Of Mind ... http://www.kpasoutput.blogspot.com