Midnight Oil

Subject: Re: [powderworks] Re: NMOC (well, sort of) + musing on PG's future
From: Tom Spencer
Date: 15/09/2011, 2:28 pm
To: "powderworks@yahoogroups.com.au" <powderworks@yahoogroups.com.au>

Midnight Oil

Hi Miron

Good, specific point on carbon pricing.

Stop challenging my established beliefs, darn you! :)

t

From: Miron Mizrahi <mironmizrahi@yahoo.com>
To: "powderworks@yahoogroups.com.au"
Sent: Thursday, 15 September 2011 2:13 PM
Subject: Re: [powderworks] Re: NMOC (well, sort of) + musing on PG's future

 
Hi Tom,

I am sure he did and still does, which is why he is still there. I respect his decision.

you ask "what could he have done"? the reality is that none of us would ever really know, we can only speculate. but I think that the best way to speculate is by looking at what he has accomplished and what his strengths are or would have been as an outsider. As a member of the Oils he was popular, articulate, non-aligned. no one could accuse him for having vested interests or a hidden agenda. he also had a platform where what he could have said and how he could have said it, are much less constrained.

let's take for example, carbon pricing. whether you support the legislation currently in front of parliament or not, I don't think anyone can argue that the government's PR and messaging around it was anything but atrocious. Labour came to power on the back of popular support for climate change action (amongst other things). 3 and a bit years later, the public has swung 180 degrees. one of the major reasons behind this swing is PR. PG and the Oils have had a great track record in shaping and influencing public opinion. so ... could PG as an outsider have helped the government's cause? like I said, I don't know for sure, but I believe this prospect is likely enough to warrant asking the question
 
Miron

How could people get so unkind?
From: Tom <tr_espen@yahoo.com.au>
To: powderworks@yahoogroups.com.au
Sent: Thursday, September 15, 2011 1:33 PM
Subject: [powderworks] Re: NMOC (well, sort of) + musing on PG's future

 
Hi Miron

Well, I think PGa himself thought he could make more of a difference from inside, and that was after seeing in detail how things worked, since 1984 at least with the NDP. What could he have done from the outside that other greats like Don Henry or Ian Lowe (Oz Conservation Foundation) couldn't have done?

t

--- In powderworks@yahoogroups.com.au, Miron Mizrahi <mironmizrahi@...> wrote:
>
> Hi Tom,
>
> all the cases you state are from the days he was in the env. portfolio. if you re-read what I wrote you will see that we have the same opinions about that. I also agree that I'd rather have him in cabinet than most others. but that is not my point. my point is whether he could have made more of a difference staying outside the system. I don't have an answer for this, but to me we are in the diminishing returns side of the spectrum
>
>  
> Miron
>
>
> How could people get so unkind?
>
>
> >________________________________
> >From: Tom <tr_espen@...>
> >To: powderworks@yahoogroups.com.au
> >Sent: Tuesday, September 13, 2011 8:39 PM
> >Subject: [powderworks] Re: NMOC (well, sort of) + musing on PG's future
> >
> >
> > 
> >Hi Miron
> >
> >Well, you all but convinced me that compulsory voting is wrong, but I gotta' disagree about PGa (as opposed to PGifford).
> >
> >He stopped the Traveston Dam at Gympie when a less skillful pollie might have done otherwise. He also helped set up a wildlife corridor in Nth Queensland. And his insistence on boring procedures (freakin' lawyers!) helped delay the Tamar Valley Pulp Mill until after he left the job. And this week he's helped protect the separation of church and state while also supporting chaplains in helping school kids, IMHO.
> >
> >But, for me anyway, the big thing is that he's still in cabinet, exerting whatever a pretty smart political activist can do in that very tricky position. We just don't know what he's done there, but we all know it's a tough gig, and I can't think of anyone else who would be better there ...
> >
> >Lost in a cold forgotten war
> >A war for some forgotten cause
> >Because of some forgotten words
> >About something I'd never heard ...
> >
> >[fade as strange drum rhythms of "No Man's Land" march out of computer, split, and goose-step relentlessly into headphones]
> >
> >--- In powderworks@yahoogroups.com.au, Miron Mizrahi <mironmizrahi@> wrote:
> >>
> >> well ... in the meantime the court of appeal in VIC will review people smuggling laws. the argument being that if it is legal for asylum seekers to arrive to Australia and seek asylum then those helping/transporting them are legal too
> >>
> >> http://www.abc.net.au/news/2011-09-12/court-of-appeal-to-review-people-smuggling-laws/2881648
> >>
> >> it would seem to me that while politicians were never 100% "public servants", the current generation is anything but. the greed for power and their desperation to be or remain elected has infected them to a degree that they are now appear oblivious to the fact that the public interest should come first.
> >>
> >>
> >> when PG left the Oils and went to politics I was - like many here - sad but also hopeful. hopeful that he can bring his persona and convictions into the world of politics and effect some, if little, change. I am not naive enough to think that he could have done without some stiff compromises, but as long as he remained in a portfolio where his passion lay and about which he was outspoken and active for decades - i thought, "could be worse ". now he is just another run of the mill pollie. the world of music has lost an icon but frankly I am not seeing a gain anywhere else that compensates for it.
> >>
> >>  
> >> Miron
> >>
> >>
> >> How could people get so unkind?
> >>
> >>
> >> >________________________________
> >> >From: Tom <tr_espen@>
> >> >To: powderworks@yahoogroups.com.au
> >> >Sent: Monday, September 12, 2011 5:50 PM
> >> >Subject: [powderworks] NMOC (well, sort of)
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > 
> >> >http://www.abc.net.au/news/2011-09-12/caucus-backs-offshore/2881702
> >> >
> >> >http://www.abc.net.au/news/2011-09-12/ten-years-of-anti-terror-laws/2881034
> >> >
> >> >The interesting question is how did the most politically backward country in the western world produce Midnight Oil?
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >>
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>